The Nightmare Engine Podcast

The Supernatural and Sacred: Unveiling the Intersection of Horror and Religion

December 22, 2021 David Viergutz Season 1 Episode 4
The Supernatural and Sacred: Unveiling the Intersection of Horror and Religion
The Nightmare Engine Podcast
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The Nightmare Engine Podcast
The Supernatural and Sacred: Unveiling the Intersection of Horror and Religion
Dec 22, 2021 Season 1 Episode 4
David Viergutz

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🎙️About the Episode
Is there a secret to crafting a chilling tale of horror that has readers sleeping with the lights on? Join us, bravely venturing into the macabre world of horror writing, sharing the dark corners of our minds where our stories are born. Our co-host Jay Bower lets us in on the creation of his Dead Blood series' second installment, illuminating the importance of beta readers and ARCs in refining an author's work.

Have you ever considered the powerful role religion plays in horror? We take a deep, analytical look at the recurring theme of demonic possessions and the portrayal of churches in our genre. From the bone-chilling unease to the visceral fear, we reveal how we weave these elements into our narratives to evoke strong, emotional responses from our readers. But fear not, we also share our proven strategies to overcome the dreaded writer's block and reveal the importance of taking time away from the gruesome world of the undead.

What happens when the supernatural slithers into Protestant faith communities? We contemplate how different denominations might respond to a demonic possession or other supernatural occurrences, drawing on the research of fellow horror author TJ Tranchill. We also delve into the fascinating impact fiction has had on our perception of exorcists and why movies and books often default to a Catholic model. So, arm yourself with your bravest heart and join us...if you dare.

🔗Connect with David

🌎 Website | 🎥 Youtube | 👨‍🏫Facebook | 📸 Instagram |🐤 Twitter | 🕰️TikTok

🔗Connect with Jay

🌎 Website | 👨‍🏫Facebook | 📸 Instagram |🐤 Twitter | 🕰️TikTok

⭐️ Leave a Review

If you enjoy listening to the podcast, please do leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts and let us kno

🔗Connect with David
🌎 Website | 🎥 Youtube | 👨‍🏫Facebook | 📸 Instagram |🐤 Twitter | 🕰️TikTok

⭐️ Leave a Review

If you enjoy listening to the podcast, please do leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts and let us know in your review who you want to see next on the podcast. Thanks!

You can also Tweet me @ViergutzDavid and tell me what horror author you want to hear from next, or what topics you want me to cover. 🙏🙏

Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

How did you like the show? Text us and let us know.

⭐️Enjoy the podcast? Do your good deed for the day and leave a 5-star review here ;) 

🎙️About the Episode
Is there a secret to crafting a chilling tale of horror that has readers sleeping with the lights on? Join us, bravely venturing into the macabre world of horror writing, sharing the dark corners of our minds where our stories are born. Our co-host Jay Bower lets us in on the creation of his Dead Blood series' second installment, illuminating the importance of beta readers and ARCs in refining an author's work.

Have you ever considered the powerful role religion plays in horror? We take a deep, analytical look at the recurring theme of demonic possessions and the portrayal of churches in our genre. From the bone-chilling unease to the visceral fear, we reveal how we weave these elements into our narratives to evoke strong, emotional responses from our readers. But fear not, we also share our proven strategies to overcome the dreaded writer's block and reveal the importance of taking time away from the gruesome world of the undead.

What happens when the supernatural slithers into Protestant faith communities? We contemplate how different denominations might respond to a demonic possession or other supernatural occurrences, drawing on the research of fellow horror author TJ Tranchill. We also delve into the fascinating impact fiction has had on our perception of exorcists and why movies and books often default to a Catholic model. So, arm yourself with your bravest heart and join us...if you dare.

🔗Connect with David

🌎 Website | 🎥 Youtube | 👨‍🏫Facebook | 📸 Instagram |🐤 Twitter | 🕰️TikTok

🔗Connect with Jay

🌎 Website | 👨‍🏫Facebook | 📸 Instagram |🐤 Twitter | 🕰️TikTok

⭐️ Leave a Review

If you enjoy listening to the podcast, please do leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts and let us kno

🔗Connect with David
🌎 Website | 🎥 Youtube | 👨‍🏫Facebook | 📸 Instagram |🐤 Twitter | 🕰️TikTok

⭐️ Leave a Review

If you enjoy listening to the podcast, please do leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts and let us know in your review who you want to see next on the podcast. Thanks!

You can also Tweet me @ViergutzDavid and tell me what horror author you want to hear from next, or what topics you want me to cover. 🙏🙏

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Nightmare Engine Podcast with your hosts, horror authors David Virgoots and Jay Bauer, where they discuss all things horror books, movies, stories. Nothing is off limits, nothing is safe, and neither are you.

Speaker 2:

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome again to another episode of the Nightmare Engine Podcast. This week we are back in full studio. I've got my co-host, jay Bauer, back here. We're on episode four now and, as of right now, the schedule has been a little bit off, so timelines are probably not matching up a little bit with the release here. But just bear with us. We're two working men and we're doing the best we can, so we're trying to get as many episodes out as possible, on average about one a week. So I think we're in a good place by the time this is going out.

Speaker 2:

So kind of interesting talk. Today. Jay is going to be talking a little bit about some of the religious aspects, about writing horror and some of the things that we might see in common horror themes like possessions and things like that. He's kind of a subject matter expert on that sort of thing and then we'll be talking a little bit about some fans and our current work. So, jay, how are you doing man? Are you there? I am man. I'm doing good. How are you? I'm good man. I'm good. It's good to be back.

Speaker 2:

It's good to be back doing this no doubt let's get a quick update from you, man, because I know a lot of stuff. You got a lot of stuff going on, some exciting things, some stuff that I'm really excited to see that we've been talking about behind the scenes. So let's talk books for a minute, man. What's the status update? Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3:

I am working on a second book in my Dead Blood series and shorthand A Vampire in a Zombie Apocalypse. I mean, come on, who doesn't want to read that? Right? The first book is off to the editor. I got the cover for the book. I've got some really positive feedback from some readers. I've got a bunch of people lined up to do some reviews for me. My beta readers have been really cool. They've given me some pointers of what was working and what wasn't. They love it. One of them described it as a vampire drop into an episode of the Walking Dead. So I mean, you can't beat that. That's exactly what I'm going for. So that's awesome. So I'm finishing up book two, which might actually get done tonight, when we're done recording, and then outlining book three and knocking that out because I want to have all three of them done or really close to being done by the time the first book releases in February.

Speaker 2:

That's a stellar feeling man Hitting that the end button. We call it a button, but to be honest, it's the words, the end, and I think I know personally that I don't write the end in literally anything I write except for the end of the book, as a big reward for myself. So I really, really enjoy getting to the end of things. I think I just do that passively, but, man, so real quick. You mentioned beta readers and arc readers and you and I we know what that is and depending on who's listening to this, they may not. So tell me real quick, just summarize what do your beta readers do, what do your arc readers do and where do you get them from? Yeah, all right.

Speaker 3:

So beta readers are super important. They get some of the first peaks at my new material. So I'll write either a short story or a novel or really anything, and I'll revise it, revise it, revise it. And then I ask my readers, who are typically in either my newsletter group or through my groups on Facebook or something like that. I'll ask for anybody that would be interested in this type of thing, in type of the story, and I want to get their feedback and I'll send them an early manuscript. It's usually not professionally edited at that point because I want to be able to make changes before I send it off to an editor. So I'll get them to and I'll let them know that.

Speaker 3:

But I give them several questions I'm looking for like, hey, is the story any good? What sucks about it? What needs improvement? What do you really like? What would you like to see more of? You know stuff like that. And I'll get their feedback and then make some changes and then get it professionally edited.

Speaker 3:

And then I'll get an ARC team which is advanced reader copies or it stands for, get that going and then I get that to readers ahead of time, before their release date, so that they have a chance to read it and I ask for an honest review. So if it in their opinion, if it's not great, I mean I don't want to see that, but I want it to be out there. I'm asking for honest reviews. You know, I don't want them to sugar coat it just because I was asking for a review. And those people again, I find them.

Speaker 3:

The same way I find my beta readers. I'll ask my newsletter list, I'll ask groups in Facebook. I've had other authors kind of sharing my information to their readers to see if they're interested in helping out with that and that's been really successful. But that's kind of. The difference is that the beta is giving me feedback, critical feedback, early on to make sure that my story hasn't fallen off the rails, and then the ARC team or the review team or those that are going to get the book and leave a review on launch day or really close to launch day.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's really cool and you and I both know the importance of both of those, but I like to state how cool that is from a reader's perspective. You and I are both avid horror readers and I think a lot of the people that we try to read I mean, especially if they're in traditional publishing. You can't reach out with an email and talk to them. You can't jump in the Facebook group and get a, get a message from them. They're just either too high and mighty or too busy, or I don't know how they're too busy because we put out books faster than they do, so I don't know how they're too busy.

Speaker 2:

But we there's no barriers between us and our readers. So we have a very intimate connection with our art team and our beta team because they get involved in the books and they help shape them. So I can't stress the importance enough of these teams. I've talked to some folks who don't use art teams at all, but to me I think it's. I think our teams are a resource and it's up to you to use them. I think beta readers are a necessity and you shall, should and shall use them, because there's a lot that your editor is going to miss.

Speaker 3:

And with my betas. You know, I like to give them an incentive. I don't really want to do that with my review team because that's kind of like paying for reviews, but with my betas I offer to put their name in the thank you section in the book so that they'll see their name in print or on an ebook, and I'll also send them a paperback copy of a signed paperback copy of the book. I think it's at that point it's it's well earned on their part because they've done a lot to help me and it's just a little thank you for them for helping me out. You know, like I said, I don't do that on review teams because I think that's kind of gets into some gray area, but for my betas certainly, you know, I'd love to reward them for helping me out.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and what? For those listening, what Jay's talking about is we cannot incentivize reviews. We can give away a book and ask for honest reviews. That's good and bad and that is a risk as, as authors, that we take, but it's the same as. It's the same as if we sold our book and somebody didn't like it. You know there's a. They're going to leave a review if they want to leave a review. We don't make it mandatory and we don't make it incentivize. So, yes, if somebody is on your art team and they don't do anything, they're just taking your book for free. Well, at that point we may want to consider, like you said, honest review. So we may want to consider readdressing their membership in the group, because they do get a benefit from that. They get the books for free, right?

Speaker 3:

Exactly, you know they, they get it and they get a sneak peek. I mean, they get it before everybody else does you know. So they get the first chance and I think that's what's cool about for me for beta readers is, you know, if you think about it, they're the some of the first people in the world to experience your story, right, like, we know what it's like in our heads when we're writing this, but we don't know how it's going to play with readers sometimes. You know, we just don't. We don't know because we're not looking at as a reader and it's really hard to separate yourself from the work, to look at it as a reader versus the author of it. And there's some of the first people in the world that get to read this, you know, and that's such an exclusive thing. If you think about it that way, you know there's how many billions of us here. It's like these handful of people are the very first ones to get a crack at this new story.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the as far as these, these, these fans go, would you say that they're Pretty dedicated to to being a part of the store. They want to shape it. You think that's. They want to help. You think that's why people get involved in this.

Speaker 3:

I think that's definitely, and and I want Feedback I don't want them to tell me, oh, everything is great, everything is wonderful, this is really good, move on, like if it genuinely is awesome, then I've nailed it.

Speaker 3:

But I want them to be able to critique it and to, you know, say like, hey, this isn't quite working for me. This is where I lost it, like my when I did the one for dead blood. I have one of my beta readers. She had some Some very legitimate critiques for me, and so I email her back asking her okay, hey, you've mentioned this thing now, where at in the story Were you feeling that you know it was lagging, or something like that? And so she was able to give me some really clear ideas of where it was, so that I knew where to address it, especially if I heard it for more than one beta reader. If it's just one person, then I have to weigh the decision if I want to make changes or not. But if it's something that I'm seeing across those readers that I know like, hey, I missed the mark on this, I really need to address this or it's gonna keep falling flat for readers moving forward.

Speaker 2:

Yeah for those listening, if, if this is something that interests you, both J and I utilize arc and beta readers, so reach out to us if you are interested, if you want to participate, if you want to have your name put down forever in these books, because that is the cool part about it, too, is that the both of us will put those who participated, those who helped, will put their names in in infamy in the back of our books. So if you want to get involved in that, reach out to us. We definitely can always use more on our team and we we appreciate the honest criticism. We're horror author so we have Some pretty thick skin.

Speaker 2:

If it sucks, it sucks and we got to know why it sucks, though. So please, you know, let us, let us know, give us, give us the gritty, because we'll appreciate it, so yeah and I just want to throw another thing on there.

Speaker 3:

And if you want to do the reviews, to if that's what, if you're more comfortable just reading it, to leave a review, awesome. But please make sure you like horror. If you do that, I don't yeah, you know it. If you're doing it to be friendly, because you know it's awesome, but if horror is not your jam, then you might not like what you're reading and and it's just not gonna land with you because it's you're not quite the audience. So, definitely, if you like horror, reach out and we would love to to work with you and talk with you and kind of move forward with you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think the benefit in writing horror is that the expectations are pretty clear about what an audience member should be getting from us. You can look at our brand or our readers are getting from us. You can look at our branding, you can look at our covers. You can look at what we've written before and know If you're getting a slasher. You're gonna know if you're just getting something that's gonna gross you out. But the one thing that I don't do is and I'm not gonna do is I'm not gonna put a warning on the front or back. So read it your own risk and understand this. You can always stop reading if you don't like it, then put it down. But if horror is our jam, so if it's not the thing for you, please you know it's okay. You're not gonna hurt our feelings by, by not reviewing.

Speaker 2:

The other thing we'll say too is that, if you don't know if you like horror, jay and I both write in a couple different flavors of horror. So, like my stuff is more slow burn, paranormal folklore, that sort of thing ghosts, demons, possessions. Jay, you've written some slasher, some some extreme stuff, but now you've moved into some zombies, so you can find the horror that you're looking for, even if you're not an avid horror reader Yet I think you, if you, I think, I think everybody could really enjoy a horror book. I mean, I just really do it. I think there's something a connection can be made with being afraid, anyways. So I want to talk real quick About something I just got back from the post office.

Speaker 2:

So this is just a real quick tidbit. If this fan is listening, you are awesome and this is about you. I'm not gonna call you out, but I just got a piece of fan mail and if anybody knows me and has been on my Facebook page, I I stress a connection with y'all. I really want to know who you are, I want to know all about you and I want to share about me, because Without you I'm not an author. You know I can't. I can't pay the bills without you. So one of the things I put on my Facebook page is I have a fill my po Box pin to the top so anybody who wants to send me mail Can and I will respond to every letter in kind. And I actually hand write my letters and I wax seal them With my logo so you know it's from me.

Speaker 2:

Just the other day um, I probably should have checked the sooner, but I checked it today and I had a package and it was really big. Package was really confusing because I didn't. Nothing gets delivered to that po Box except for Stuff for this, for my, for my authorship. So when I open the, when I open the box, what it turned out to be was a package, a handmade bag With Halloween themed fabric for one of my readers. I know who she is, we talk all the time but it was to my wife.

Speaker 2:

So To me that was an incredible feeling that the connection has extended beyond just a. I have us, I have a product or service and I've delivered to my readers and now they're delivering the results back or the money back. Now they're reaching out to me on more Personal basis and I and I think that connection is just incredible. So if you're listening to this, thank you, um, fan mail. I, I, I like the handwritten letters. I think I think the only thing that comes in the mail now is Jury summons and bills. So if I can get anything in the mail, that's not that I Definitely appreciate it. So go to my facebook page and you can take a look at the link at the top and and that's where they fill my po Box instructions are where you can, we can write me a letter.

Speaker 3:

So fan mail and that is so cool. To get something like that and not just something for you, but something you know for your wife, which is that's amazing. Fans can can turn out with some really cool stuff sometimes and it's just Um, man, it's such a thrill to realize that what we're doing, the words that we're writing, the books that we're writing, the stories that we're creating, I'll resonate with people in such a deep way like that. You know that, um, I'm just, uh, I'm all hard every time someone says, hey, I read your stuff, I really like it. You know, I read this book and I thought it was awesome. You know, and I just every single time I hear that it's such a cool thing because it's Um, it's just, it's surreal to know that what I'm writing, the words I'm putting down, the words I'm sharing, meant something to somebody and, in your case, meant something to somebody so much that they sent a gift for your wife not you freaking out.

Speaker 2:

And she has sent me plenty of stuff, so it's not like this is the first time. So we, we, we've had a letter exchange, we've been going back and forth for a few few months now. Um, so let's talk. Um, I just had an interesting thought, jay. Give me, give me a couple things you do when you're feeling down, man, when, like when, you're worried. If this is, do I want to do this, you know what makes you feel better. What do you? What do you do? Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3:

I don't think we're having a time problem. No, I'm kidding Um that that happens a lot, man, it really does. Um, I've had several times where that comes up, um, and it seems it it's kind of seasonal, what kind of not like? So it's gonna be weird to say this, but I, this happens a lot in June, right, and I've had some really bad experiences with editors and with a book and with a writing conference that just Um, and it all happened in June. So I don't know, maybe that's why it keeps recurring.

Speaker 3:

But I get those moments where, like, I don't, I don't feel like, I don't feel like writing, I don't feel like putting anything out, because it's no one's reading us, no one cares, no one wants to read this, it's all junk. Everything I'm doing is garbage. Um, I totally feel like that a lot, and so sometimes for me one of the best things is just to bounce some ideas off of you or or the rest of our group, you know, and just just throw something out there and just um, get some support that way. Or go for a walk. Honestly, just A little walk just can clear your head and kind of get you back into it, um, or I'll listen to certain kind of music or something like that, or just take a break from it and read some read someone else's work, you know, um, that always helps to get um to inspire me, to kind of get me going and Rethink and like, all right, well, maybe I'm not total crap, maybe there's something I got that people really do I listen to or read, you know.

Speaker 3:

Yeah um so.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so it's not um For me. I'm a little more technical with it. I actually go through and I start reading some of my reviews on Amazon and I can kind of sift through a couple of ones that just say like great book or whatever, and I can tell when somebody sat down and did some, did some thinking, and put a few sentences together that said to them this is why I think this story is great and this is why I love it. So I do that, and then I have every letter that has ever been written to me and every piece of fan mail and every sticker, everything that I've been ever been sent in a box, and I go through the box every now and then, and then the last thing I do is I remember that Sharknado had six sequels and sold out.

Speaker 2:

So I think between those I get pretty well motivated. I'm like you, though. I think some of my best ideas come after I've had no ideas, and then I jump on the treadmill and all of a sudden I want to write 20 books in a row. So it's a weird. It's kind of got an ebb and flow over time, just every now and then just feeling like a talentless hack, and then, and then, and then I look at my Amazon page and I said man, I did that, yeah.

Speaker 3:

No, it's such a I don't. I don't look at those to to bolster myself, but I get it. I understand the process and the concept that you're talking about and it totally makes sense and maybe it's something I can incorporate later on. But for me it was just to clear my head, man. I used to live near a small lake and it had like a four mile track around it that you could walk or run. I mean, it was a road but and it was really hilly and I would just throw on some headphones and go for a walk, man, and just clear my head, try to think through maybe the problems I'm having with the piece and maybe that's what's making me think I'm a little good or whatever, and you know, just kind of don't worry about anything else except putting one foot in front of the other, and it kind of clears out everything else.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so different methods and and all of them serve an important purpose and that's so we can get out of our own heads and get out of our own way. Sure, I think that's really important for anybody. If you want to write a book, get out of your own way to start putting words on a page. You're going to mess it up we all have and that's not what matters. It's exactly like Jay said is putting one foot in front of the other and keep going. So the people who who don't make it in the industry, in this industry, the people who don't make it in writing a book, are the people who quit Anybody else if they just keep going and keep trying to eventually things, things work out. So I want to, I want to end that type of this section of that conversation on on a good note. So I really liked that about, about your process, man.

Speaker 2:

So now, now we're moving into some specifics. So this week, I know we talked about dead blood a little bit. So let's talk about, let's talk about dead blood some more, just for about just a few minutes. So what is the, what is the process looking like for you, man? What are you, what are you going to do with it. So what are you doing with books one, two and three, Cause I know you're holding on to them. Books one, books one is done. Right, it's off to the editor. It's, it's almost there, yeah correct.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, book one is is pretty much, pretty much done. I sent it off to the editor. I'm waiting to get his revisions back to me and that one I anticipate that one will be done in the next week or so, completely, you know, I'll have to format it for a paperback, because I always love doing paperbacks. But other than that, things are going to be ready to roll. Book two, as I said earlier, is probably I could get it done tonight, or it may get be tomorrow, but in either case it's about to be done, at least the first try. I already know some changes that I need to make. That came from my beta readers of book one, which added a nice little element that I was able to carry over to both of them since I haven't released it yet. I could make some changes in that book one that'll resonate through book two and then it will continue in book three, and so I'm getting ready to knock that out and then I'll actually, when I'm finished with a piece like that, I let it sit for a few days.

Speaker 3:

When I'm done, I don't go back to it for a little bit, I just kind of let it marinate, if you will. You know, just take a break from it. But then in the meantime I'm going to be doing some outlining on book three. I have a vague idea of where I want it to go, but I need to write down at least a little bit of an outline to kind of keep me going. It makes my process go faster when I do that. So I'll do a little bit of an outline and then I'll do two things at once.

Speaker 3:

Well, I'll start writing book three while everything's still kind of fresh in my mind, but then I go back and start revising book two and making all the changes that you made before I get it to my beta readers and then to the editor and the way the story is going now. I initially planned for three books, but I'm feeling like the story is a little bit bigger than that and I'm really really enjoying kind of hanging out in this world. And they're shorter books. You know they're going to be about 40k words, so they're on the shorter end of things which is great for me and that still commutes to about 200 pages right, yeah it'll be around that.

Speaker 3:

It's great for me. I like shorter pieces of myself because I like to kind of just jump to the next thing. I've been thinking lately. It may end up being maybe five books when it's all said and done, but I'm going to start with the three and see how it goes and see where I go with it and kind of go from there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and right now I plan to have these episodes released to everybody soon enough that, if you're listening to this, jay, I do believe you're offering almost what three chapters of the book for free for anybody who wants to read it, and then you can pre-order the book on 99 cents. Is that correct that?

Speaker 3:

is correct, so that that promotes little ways out, but also depends on when this is released. But I'll be doing a giveaway with the first three chapters of the book with a link for the pre-order. Pre-order actually is live now as we speak, but it's a 99 cent pre-order. I want to get it in as many zombies lover hands as possible, so I want people to check out this crazy world where somebody dropped a vampire in the middle of a zombie apocalypse and I want to see what people's reaction is to it. So 99 cent pre-order and then we'll go live with it. And the other two books are going to be released in about 10 to 14 days after book one, about 10 to 14 days later with ebook two and then about 10 to 14 days later with book three.

Speaker 2:

So we'll see how that goes. Awesome, so you're going to have three books in folks hands within a matter of a month, and I think that's going to be awesome. So you won't have to wait very long to get that story and start reading it. So very cool. And that 99 cent, man, that's an awesome deal for a full book in 99 cents, that's awesome. You should jump on that while you can, but no, you'll definitely have some time before this episode is released.

Speaker 2:

So if you're listening to this, we are talking to our future selves here, and so, as we're recording, this is Wednesday, december 22nd, so we were recording things ahead of time, but there's not really much rhyme or reason to the dates that we record this. We just kind of do it as our schedules permit. So who knows what this week has? We might have another episode going, but dates aren't important. The information here is that's good man, that's good. I really I've really been following this series and how you've been putting it together. I know you use some of my models when I released my zombie series and I hope you and I hope I gave you all the mistakes, not to make.

Speaker 3:

We'll find out right.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, it's going to be. It's going to be great. I think there's some surprises coming along the way. I think some, some other giveaways, some other authors and stuff like that, including yours truly. So I really want to help support you in this launch, man, and really see things go through Right.

Speaker 3:

I don't appreciate that.

Speaker 2:

Anyways, so moving on a little bit, I want to talk a little bit about my experience last night. I think I texted this to you early this morning. So if anybody knows what I do, I'm an overnight, I'm an overnight beat cop and I work in a small, in a small department in in near Austin. It gives me some time to write at night, which is really great, and so last night I was writing right near the end, which is the fun part for a lot of my books, because they get kind of wild and crazy near the end when things start to come together. I was writing the chapter and it was.

Speaker 2:

I scared myself so bad in this chapter that every August of the wind, every sound outside, it took me three times as long to finish this chapter because of how spooked I was and and to me, man, I really am excited for that. I really want to hear somebody tell me that like yep, I know what you're talking about, I know exactly what part that was, because same thing happened to me. Every little bump out there, just, you know, just sends you into a paranoid frenzy. So that was a really cool. Is that the first time that happened to you? I think it's the second time. So the first time that happened to me was during my book when to go, and that that was because I wrote the story, including this one, the the haunting of belford manor. That story is is I put in elements that spooked me, specifically including when to go. The story the one to go scared the piss out of me, and so I was like, well, what better way to pay homage to it than to scare the piss out of?

Speaker 2:

somebody else so yeah, that's the second time that's happened to me and it normally happens in the middle of the night when I'm writing.

Speaker 3:

So I mean, why not? You're all alone, it's dark and you're writing some some really dark stuff. And I mean, I think that's and usually that comes out in your work when, when you, as the author, get scared of what the hell you're writing, it shows up, I think, sometimes in the work. I had a flash fiction story I wrote that just bothered the heck out of me. I've told you this before I don't like things touching my eyes, I don't like anything around it. And in this story, this guy, he kept seeing these little, these little creatures kept coming out of his eyes, right come between his eyeball and his eyelid and coming out. And so some body horror, yeah. And so he thought you know what's the best way to get rid of these things? Let's just take out my eye. And so he has to get himself a little liquid courage and he goes in it, cuts out his own eyeball to get rid of this sin that's coming out of his eye, you know, and it just really I had to stop several times writing it because I just freaks me out man having things near my eyes, touching my eyes.

Speaker 3:

And in the, some of the people that got to read it and review it for me said exactly that they were like. It made them squirm quite a bit because it was just kind of a little uncomfortable. So what did I do? I took that flash fiction concept and made it into a novel about somebody cutting out eyeballs. I mean, why not right? And in writing that it made me. I had to stop several times because it was just like, oh, you just freaked me out yeah, so we do have an intimate connection with our books.

Speaker 2:

We as horror authors do get scared and we sometimes we spook ourselves. So definitely cool when that happens and I think a lot of readers they'll. They'll pinpoint those, those moments, just like you said. So, anyways, moving on, jay, so you're you're the subject matter expert on this man.

Speaker 2:

You asked me a question a couple of days ago, or was it a week ago, about my thoughts on religious involvement. So we're not talking about religion and politics, we're talking about more along stories. You know stories, both fictional and nonfiction. So true stories including and, and the tropes and the made-up ones about possession and the role of the church in demonic possession. So you know real quick background.

Speaker 2:

I'm a Lutheran and which is a, you know, just a denomination of Christianity. It's, it's often seen as one of the looser religions as far as, as far as a practice goes, and it's a, I believe it's a Germanic descent. So forgive me for not knowing my own the, the, the details of my own religion, but I've been a Lutheran as long as I can remember and I remember going to a Catholic service once, like a you know a Catholic service. I said, man, this is rigid, the there wasn't a whole lot. It felt very old. I felt and not I don't mean the people, I meant the service itself I felt like I was kind of rooted in this, in this theme and this, these, these practices that hadn't changed in a long time.

Speaker 2:

There was no adaptation to current, to the current way of things. So Jay and I Jay's gonna talk a little bit about that and I'm gonna kind of give my opinion on it, but that's all it really is as much as an opinion, and I'm trying not to make a fool out of myself. So, jay, what do you got on this? Let's talk about that question you asked me and then I'll, and I gave you my answer and we'll just kind of go from there.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, alright so this is something that I have, it's been on my mind for a lot for quite a while, I should say and so it came to me. I was I don't remember what movie I was watching but when you think of fiction and this goes really beyond fiction, this goes into to the real world scenarios but whenever you think of demons and possession, you think of the exorcist and things like that what comes to mind as the person to counter that demon, right like what? What kind of person comes to?

Speaker 3:

mind like a priest, pastor, a priest or even even an exorcist like a ordained exorcist almost every time you see it depicted, it's almost always a priest. You know, black shirt with the white collar. I mean it mostly. I think it's because visually you know, oh look, that's somebody, it's gonna take it. It's super easy to do that if you were to go with like a Baptist, preacher or something like that. You know, you just see a guy in a polo shirt and you wouldn't. You know, you don't know that that's that person's there to take care of a demon, right, so what it? So they got me thinking. It's like in the real world scenario when you think about it, because you know, catholics do have people trained in exorcism. They do have branch of their clergy that that does look at that.

Speaker 3:

But what about everybody else? What about Protestants? You know, specifically talking Christian in nature? You know, I don't want to speculate on other faiths, but in the Christian, when you look at it in that world view, what about the Protestant religions? What about Baptists and Methodists and Lutherans and Mormons, and you name it like, what about the rest of them?

Speaker 3:

What do they do when there's somebody that has a demon, you know, or a lot of those faiths? Look at the Bible and they'll say they take every word literally word for words cool, that's fine, but it talks a lot about demons. So then, what do you do? Like what happens, you know, when someone in the congregation do they believe in possession or do they say no, it's not, it's a, you know, maybe some kind of other disorder, like what happens, what do you do like?

Speaker 3:

Who do you turn to? You know, I really and I don't see like a Baptist preacher, you know what? I can't help this. I'm gonna go grab this Catholic and help, have him, help me, because there's there's a lot of disagreements between those denominations. Right, it's a dirty. It just I don't know, man, it really is something that makes me think of you know, how was that portrayed? How is it taken in other denominations that aren't Catholic? Because that one is clearly you mentioned it being rigid, but they have a structure and they've had that structure for, you know, well over a thousand years, and that may be what I meant.

Speaker 2:

Is the structure, not necessarily rigidity, just structure, right but so they've had something in place.

Speaker 3:

They've dealt with things like this in the past. But what about these other ones? You know they, they all broke from the Catholic Church because they saw that, you know, in, in their view, that wasn't a right way to practice their faith. And so what do they do? They're not gonna emulate them. It's I don't know. You know I, I I posed that question on social media a couple years ago or something like that, and fellow horror author, tj Tranchill, had been doing some research on that very topic, in particularly with Mormons, and so he sent me some information that he found to kind of help me a little bit to understand it some. But there's very little out there and I don't know. It's like it's it's really really you. For me it's fascinating because I think it goes beyond just everyday life, but it goes into our fiction, into things that we write, you know, into trying to portray it the right way and make it make sense, you know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and my response to this is kind of what sparked this conversation, because I did notice a lot in fiction and a lot in movies that often the priest who responds to any kind of demonic possession or suspected demonic possession is a Catholic priest. And so I know that the in Catholicism they have the Vatican and a very big network of. You know it's almost like their own little city. At the Vatican they have their own police force and everything, security and, and you know the Pope is this, you know, highly protected and you know it's this big and big network of, and Lutherans have the same setup. You know they have synods, which is kind of the same setup. It's just a hierarchical. You know a feed of both funds and doctrine and everything else.

Speaker 2:

But my response was an honest response because I didn't know, I figured if I figured Catholicism was where you know the roots of Christianity, that's kind of where that that was, that that way of practice was what we have always been told and what I've also told my kids is that as long as you're a believer in Christ, that's what's important. The Lutheran is just the way we choose to practice that, and so that was kind of how I've been said well, if it all feeds into Catholicism, when it makes sense for a Lutheran, if there's a Lutheran church that would have a possession, or the Lutheran is the main religious authority in the area, wouldn't they call the Catholics for help? Wouldn't they say, hey, let's call in the big guns? And your answer to that was actually no.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, no way.

Speaker 2:

And I had no idea and I just but that's how my view had been warped, I think from from fiction, because that's all we see is the Catholic priest.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, because I go to. I go to a Southern Baptist church. There's absolutely no way that the pastor would ever turn to a Catholic and go hey, I can't do this. This is beyond me. I need your help, I need your expertise. It's, it's just no way. And there's other denominations that are like that, that just they broke from the Catholic church for a reason you know. They don't look back to it as their history of like oh they're, they're like the older brother and we're just go to them. There's no way away at all.

Speaker 2:

You know, I it's just, and have you researched that any further? Do you know if, like the Southern Baptists, have an arm, you know these warrior priests that go and real quick folks for anybody listening I'm a Christian. I'll tell anybody I'm a Christian. I'm not afraid to tell anybody a Christian, j, j's a Christian. And so even though we write horror, we write some twisted stuff, it doesn't mean that we're Satanists you know, sitting in, you know, sitting in our dark rooms with our skulls and thinking about the end of the world.

Speaker 3:

This is just.

Speaker 2:

I can see the room you're in right now, but I don't know about the other rooms. You know this. You got a big house now, so but no, so we, we are devout Christians, we love our God and we're. We love Jesus and we, you know he died for our sins and we know that. I had no idea what somebody would do. You know, I don't know what a Southern Baptist would do, I'm just ignorant to the idea. But did you research any further to find out what a Southern Baptist church would do if there was a possession of their congregation or suspected possession?

Speaker 3:

Not much, I got derailed on other things, but it's something I still it just kind of lingers in the back of my head and something I really need to research and and just to know, you know, because I want to know what what people think or what you know. What are the protocols for that there? There has to be some right. There just has to. I mean, I did ask a few people I didn't ask the pastor, I didn't ask other pastors, but because I thought that'd be kind of weird asking that, because I'm I'm doing research for some horror that I'm writing, could you help me with this?

Speaker 3:

Um, I think there's some validity in at least knowing um, especially if you. For me, I want to know for several reasons, like just personal reasons, that, just out of curiosity, but also, um, for my fiction. It'll inform. You know, I always like to learn. You know, I want to feel like this is one of those things that obviously not many people know about um, and I want to learn about it just, and that can, uh, make what I write just more real, more powerful. Um, for sure, you know, it's not like I have to do a big info dump about it, but it it is something that can inform my writing as I'm working on.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, there's a, there's a level of authenticity that makes a story seem more realistic as you get more authentic with it, um, and I think that's what we try to do. We don't have to have everything rooted in fact. That's the that's the point of fiction is that it's not necessarily fact. It's not a true story, um, but some of the elements of it can still be true, and that odds that adds a level of authenticity. So, you know, um, I do know that I've got a possession book coming up and I've been, I've been thinking about this a lot. I said what am I going to do, you know, and what's the religion going to be? Um, that's that's important here, um, because my fallback has always been that that stereotypical Catholic priest that comes in and, you know, like exorcism Emily Rose, like the exorcist itself, I expect them you know the Catholic church to do their investigation, um, and come in and and, yes, this is a full fledged possession or no, it's not a possession, and then they come back and say, actually, yes, it is. You know, I mean those. I never considered those things until now. It's always been a Catholic priest, but I thought, man, having a little bit of um differentiation, you know, having a couple of you know the denomination, like Southern Baptists.

Speaker 2:

Um, southern Baptism is very prominent around here in Texas. There's a lot of Southern Baptists. Um, there's also a lot of Lutherans because of Frederick'sburg there's a huge German population in Frederick'sburg, texas. Um, so there's a lot of Lutheran churches too, um, which you don't find. You might find one or two Catholic churches in these major cities, but they're very consolidated, they're very big, they kind of like absorbed the the other smaller Catholic churches, unless they're like this, the? Um you'll find the Spanish speaking ones out here too. But yeah, so that's, um, that's an interesting, interesting idea, man. It's just another layer of of fiction writing that goes a little bit deeper, um, that you hadn't really considered, all right and considered until now. So when you pose that question to me, I thought I was like man, this that's a good point. I was like I'm, I'm, you know, I don't, I don't know what to do.

Speaker 3:

Right, I mean in, you know, in entertainment, in fiction and movies. Like I said earlier, I think it's just easier to show, um, a guy with the white collar right, like you know, as a priest, you know, you know what his function is, you know what why he's there. It just makes it a hundred times easier. Um, and I get that. You know, it makes sense to me and and it's, it's kind of a trope, if you will, um, it's what some of the expectations are, because that's just the easiest thing to show, but there's, there's got to be more to it. You know there's, there's so many other denominations and um, they, they've got to have something and I haven't uncovered it yet. So if anyone's listening and they know, please send me some information. I'm super curious about this and I would love to know more about it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so the, the, uh, the topic of this message would be if you're possessed and you're a Lutheran, who do you turn to? So that's, that's the, that's the question here and that's, uh, I've never really thought about that. So that's, that's awesome man, so very cool folks. So we're looking at wrapping up now. We've talked about a lot this week, um, a lot of cool developments, um, a lot of opportunity to connect with us personally, uh, a lot of opportunity to support us, um, so that we can compete. You know, we can keep giving you guys some, some awesome books, some awesome material, and scaring the hell out of you, um. So this week, jay, um tell, first, tell us where can people find the pre-order for Dead Blood book one?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so, um, I've got already the short link, already already a roll. So it's just my book, dot to slash dead blood, and the D and the B um, for dead and blood are both capitalized. But my book got to slash dead blood. You find it on the Amazon, 99 cents. Grab it now.

Speaker 2:

And I'll make sure there's links in the in the description below and links on the podcast so you guys can snatch that up. Um, uh, if you, if you happen to jump on this past that, still grab the book, even if it's not up on 99 cent pure, make sure you grab that, Um. And then where can people find you in general for any of your other work?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, jay Bauer, authorcom. Um, it's my website, it's just um. You'll be able to find my social media links on there as well, so you can follow me and stalk me wherever you want to. That's cool, I'm down with that. Uh, shoot me an email, jay Jay Bauer, authorcom. I'm out there. I love to talk to you.

Speaker 2:

Awesome and folks, my name is Dave for Goots, um, and I'm uh, you can find me at David very goodscom links everywhere. Um, you can find me on Amazon I'm pretty sure I'm the only very good out there and, uh, thank you. You know, just real quick I got an extra minute. Thank you for being here, Thank you for listening. I know I'm speaking in advance and I know that we're going to be pushing this podcast out there to the world for, hopefully, people to listen in and enjoy Um and to join us. You know, join, join our crews. Um, become a part of this, because become part of this, you know, this horror community, because we are tight niche. So, David, very goodcom. Ladies and gentlemen, you're listening to the nightmare engine podcast, or everything or everything, a horror and nothing is safe. Um, we're signing off for this week. Until next time, merry Christmas and we'll talk to you later.

Speaker 2:

Thank you. Thank you.

Horror Writing and Beta Readers
Connect With Horror Readers, Receive Fan Mail
Writing Blocks and Book Release Discussion
Horror Authors and Religious Involvement
Christian Denominations and Demon Possession